When it comes to neighbors, friends, and people

I just want to keep goodwill with, I handle it one of the following ways.

1. Just go. It’s an excuse to get together with people, eat some food, maybe make new friends, and only buy something if I REALLY want it and it’s a price I am ok with. (Like Pampered Chef. I don’t mind going and picking up a kitchen tool I might actually use) I’m not selling it, I am not recruiting, and I can’t be recruited.

2. When it’s too many parties, I just say I have other plans sometimes. My neighbor (who also watches my son during the day)has hosted three or four MLM parties this summer. I’ve only gone to one.

Good morning!

I have a client/neighbor of mine who is now hosting an mlm party. I’ve gotten a letter invite and an email invite. I’m being spammed!lol

I have so far ignored the requests. However in the email reply I said “I just don’t do those kinds of parties, not my thing”. If she keeps persisting what do I do? She lives on the same street, uhg.


I have so much information relating to the above

but would like to start by asking if anyone knows the extent of Paul Meyer’s Reliv involvement? Paul J. Meyer is the 79 year old multimillionaire author and motivational leader that is a major shareholder ( over 2 million shares until this week) and Reliv Distributor. He claims openly that Reliv is the one and only Nutritional Product MLM that meets his criteria, but then I see that he has also acquired over 2 million shares of USANA stock. He and the president of one of his companies are presented as regular ole’ Distibutors.

Thank you.

I know it’s late, but I was at a Market America meeting years ago

The speaker said it wasn’t MLM. I also saw in MA literature I had where MA said it’s MLM/network Marketing in small print somewhere.
MA has uplines, downlines, sponsors, pay plans that pay percentages to the distributors & upline, etc.
I was in a few MLMs (Freelife, Reliv, Amway), and looked at others. MA is the worse pay plan I ever found. Had to pay for more invisible centers (forgot what they are called), etc. That’s a big red flag, in & of itself.
Yep … MLM/network marketing, to be sure.

You’re absolutely right

I have a 9 to 5 job where I earn 87,000 per year. Separating the tax refund for the home business from the full-time job is difficult and I did not do that in the presentation I posted. Surfice it to say, I’ve NOT had a refund of more than $600 dollars for the 10 years preceding 2007. And yes, MLMers do get audited a lot. That’s because it’s so difficult for the government to tell which ones are meeting the criteria for both being a legitimate business and for reporting reporting on their activity.

For instance USANA recently turned up under FTC investigation for being an illegal pyramid scheme (ie, not legitimately moving products to end consumers), among other charges.

My company, Market America, doesn’t just encourage us to, but actually trains us to move products to end customers and has a systemized way of documenting our activity. Additionally, to enforce this, if we DON’T move products to end customers, following our established system, we don’t get paid. If the downline don’t get paid, neither does the upline. This forces the upline to do more than just hype….to work together with downlines to ensure they move products to end consumers as well as properly document it and properly report on it on their tax returns.

Let me get this straight..

you spent $6800 on MLM and got $6900 back from Uncle Sam due to your MLM expenses? How is that possible?

Many people who do MLM who know nothing about business and accounting believe they can “write it off” of their taxes but don’t know what that means. You do not get to subtract that amount out of what you would normally have to pay; you get to subtract it out of your taxable income. In addition, you would have to add your compensation from the MLM onto your 2015 taxes if you had income from it in 2014, negating your deductions for 2015.

This is truly “funny math”.

I have NEVER seen tax returns counted in gross earnings!

In other words, you spend say $10000(presumably from your J-O-B) on your business – Uncle sam turns around and gives you back $3800 (remember, this money came from your nonMLM J-O-B!!). Now, you count this as gross earnings from the MLM and show a profit!! Wow, with this kind of ability for self-delusion, who needs MLM to brainwash you ?


I’m not trying to sell you on my business. I don’t care whether you think it works or not. I’m just here to get your objections and really see what I may have to deal with when talking to people I don’t know. Really! I actually get a laugh out of the way you poke fun at me. And that’s just great. Don’t expect me to spend a lot of time defending my position. I won’t. And I have no desire to try to recruit anyone here. I just wanted to read through your comments if that’s OK with you. And maybe from time to time, ask a question about something I see that I don’t understand.

The $300 is the check I receive from the compansation

I spend about $200 per month including shipping, (for product at distributor cost). My montly income includes both that check and the amount I make in retail from sale of product. So far this month I’ve made approximately $200 in retail and I still have products I can sell to make more. So I’m already up to $500 and I expect to make more by the end of July.

Again I say Wow!

Your questions are tough ones. And while I know that you’ll probably ban me from the forum for this statement, I don’t see how I can possibly answer all of them. My life is bound by time….In addition to my network marketing business and my personal life, I still have 9 to 5 job. I simply don’t have time to respond to everything. May be you can give me your five most pressing questions and I’ll take that on. (That means 5 from the entire forum, not five from each of you).

I do have an alternate take on some of the assumptions in your note.

Our company, Market America doesn’t teach that. And the questions you guys have asked me, almost never come up. If someone asks me how much I’m making I can simply tell them, and at most, show them my latest check or a copy of it. In a couple of cases, I’ve taken people to my backend management system and showed them the number of checks I’ve received, along with the dates they were earned. This backend system is the same system the company draws from to provide me a 1099 at the end of the year for submission with my federal and state tax return.

I am mindful that if I have the objective of recruiting someone, providing all the proof is not necessarily the most effective method and in most cases does not produce the intended result. That means answering those questions would be a waste of time. (And at my age, I’ve learned to value my time.) So for that reason, I may avoid answering certain questions. But this is not because of company training.

Thank you very much for your reply

Very kind of you!

I’m afraid I’ve already made the mistake of being confrontational. My excuse is that I’m hardwired against this stuff – I grew up with parents who actually steered me away from this kind of stuff before I ever REALLY had to deal with it.

I’m going to see what I can do to salvage things.

Your parents were obviously trying to do the right thing with you

But steering you away from it doesn’t afford you the opportunity to learn about it and learn WHY you should steer away from it. And frankly, not many people know enough about it to really know why it’s a bad deal. They don’t know enough to know how people can get sucked into these things when “we should know better.”

Some things that are thought to be “common sense” aren’t. And the simplistic expression, “If it looks too good to be true, it probably is,” is entirely blind to the reality that people who put together scams (especially ones as elaborate as AmQuix) KNOW that if it looks too good to be true, people won’t fall for it. Their schemes are DESIGNED to look plausible – NOT too good to be true.myguaranteedpayday
Okay, so you’ve been confrontational. Here’s a possible approach:

First, you need to be somewhat humble. Be apologetic for confronting her about it. She’s hearing things that you are not, and some leeway for that void should be afforded.

Now, here’s a statement you can make that is TRUE but not exactly what it sounds like it is: “You obviously understand this business in a way that I don’t. Bad credit is OK for payday loans with guaranteed approval from www.nowguaranteed.com web service + I’m going to need some time to look at it, perhaps with you, and learn more about it.” Do you see how that can be taken more than one way? This affords you the chance to look at web sites and forums so that you might learn more about it. And if you value this relationship enough to really get after it, you’ll need to learn BOTH sides of the MLM issue – the claims and the reality.

Being involved in MLM and learning the truth during/after quitting is the surest way to get that education. But it can be a very expensive way to go about it, both in terms of finances and in your relationships. Without being involved, you have to spend some time learning about it in order to effectively communicate with someone who’s involved in it.

Always keeping “I don’t understand” ready will be a huge help. It will give you time to research. It will also give you the opportunity to hear what she’s being taught. And if what she’s being taught doesn’t jive with reality, you can say, “I don’t understand” and have an opening for explaining why what she says doesn’t make sense.

Okay, I think I’ve given you enough to work with for now. Think a little about this before you get into conversation with her again, and remember that you can’t always “be right,” even if you are right about MLM. You have to decide if you want to be right or if you want to rescue this situation and this relationship. That’s why being confrontational doesn’t work. She knows she’s right, too.

Again, best of luck.

OK-I’ll bite

I’ve been in the business for 28 months. The first three months were a grace priod where I did not have to by any products other than my original startup kit. After that, I spent approximately $250 – three hundred dollars every quarter on products, which I either used or sold. My expenses also includes some training (4 conventions and nutritional training, $395 each, over the time period as well as a number of smaller trainings ranging from $15 to $50 each). The training figure below also include cost of travel, hotel and meals.

Assets & Expenses:
Product purchased 2,400*
Training 5,300
Support materials 1,500

Total Assets & Expesses 6,800

Earnings & Compensation
Compensation plan payout $2400**
Retail Earnings 2100***
Return on taxes (2014) 3800
Return on taxes (2015) 3100

Gross Earnings 11,400

Less Expenses 6,800
Net Earnings 4,600

* the retail value of the products purchased is $4320.
**This year (2016) I’m on track to earn $3600 for the year (that’s $300 dollars per month).
*** approximately 50% ($1200) of this income came from retail sale of products purchased and listed above under Assets. I sold roughly about 1/3 of what I purchased and retained the rest for my own use or later resale.

The figures do not include purchases resulting from me transfering my buying from brick and mortar stores to my own online store. For instance I get a much better deal on groceries from business partners on my online store (which we call a mall), than going directly to the same major, brand name grocery store in my neighborhood. And I get a three hundred dollar check when I rack up enough brownie points–which I would not have gotten from my local store. I also exclued the purchase of a new Gateway laptop computer, the purchase of flowers and gifts for birthdays and holidays and many other items I would have bought anyway, but which I purchased through my online store. In short, the figures include only the products I purchase with the intention of reselling them, which was done primarily as part of the business requirement for maintaining a distributorship relationship with the company. And by the way, all the products so purchased, is a business expense says it’s tax deductible–which is true even if I end up using the product.

There is something I am a little confused about

The numbers you gave do not make sense, unless I am being dense. If you have only made three hundred so far, but you have made 2500 hundred in the compensation plan and made another two thousand retailing product. How are you defining “made”. Is it straight sales generated or is it before expense margin, after expense profit? There are too many questions left unanswered. Hal is right when he said statements require proof but your statements are a bit confusing to me. Please clarify that for me if you don’t mind.


You’re making the claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You have not received “way too many questions” unless you don’t know your system.

Please start with the first response and only bother with the responses that are directly to your first post. Go through and answer the questions.

Why am I being such a prick about this? First, because I’m great at being a prick. (I really am! Ask Rico or abcdjkl or anyone I’ve offended. You should be able to find at least 12 people that I’ve offended in the past 2-3 months.) Second, and more importantly, because there is one trait EVERY MLM shares, and I mean EVERY one. Repeat: EVERY one shares this trait.

EVERY MLM teaches their members not to answer the tough questions and not to answer questions they cannot support with facts.

This is a forum for people that are hurt by MLMs. We admit, from the start, that if you’re pro-MLM, the cards are stacked against you. Not fair? Quite fair, compared to what MLMs have done to so many people and how they’ve damaged and destroyed lives and relationships.

So if someone comes in and says, “This MLM works,” we need to see proof. Not claims without proof, but proof.

I personally believe that

because pro-mlmers are allowed if they follow the rules speaks volumes to what we are about. I think if we did not allow a different point of view we would be no better than the HATERS in mlm as to our approach. I also think the forum moderaters do a great job in what they allow.

I also view it as a learning experience as I tend to get way too defensive and over react. As time goes on I am learning a little different way to approach things instead of just charging and smashing. I owe that to all who post here so the learning and sharing can be applied to a little more than mlm and in that I thank all of you, especially when I say something dumb 🙂

OK and Wow!

There are just way too many questions generated from my introductory note for me to reasonably answer. I can’t even offer any proof it works. I’m personally only making about $300 per month from the business (not counting the tax breaks). But I’ll offer that I made no money with Kanosis; in fact I lost almost 12 hundred dollars, because I signed up prelaunch and I was paying monthly with my credit card. I also lost money on Free store club and never made a dime. I didn’t even sell a product!!

And the story is similar for all the one’s I’ve been in. Until now. So far, with my current business, I’ve marketed a lot of product, and I’ve made $2500 in payouts from the compensation plan.
In addition, I’ve made approximately $2000 in retail from products sold.

However, I understand that debating is not acceptible here, and it was not my intention to start a debate. I honestly didn’t think I was going to get such strong reactions to my statement, this being the first time I’d come across a forum like this and all.

But I love that this can be so educational for me.

Thanks to all who responded.

What?? That’s better than being here? j/k

Personally, I think it’s GREAT that pro-MLMers would be here (rather than growing their victims… er, contact list), whether they try to post or do nothing more than read the messages. They NEED to hear all that is being communicated here. They need to have the information that will give them a more balanced view of what they’re doing. God knows they won’t get that from most of their leaders.

Thanks for clarifying. ALL pro-MLMers who get messages into the forum do so because I let them. That puts me on the firing line, for some.
I sometimes have difficulty recalling who is most and least okay with that. Please, forgive my defensiveness.

Woah, there, Tyler. I don’t have any such “test.”

I did put out a challenge for any MLMer who wants to PROVE that his/her MLM works as advertised. I have promised to review profit/loss statements and other documentation, verified by a 3rd party (such as a CPA) with an open mind.

I have had only one taker in the nearly four years that the challenge has been standing. That MLMer’s documentation was not sufficient to prove anything, one way or the other, since he had only been involved in his MLM for about 6 months. He had profit and loss statements, but no tax documentation or evidence of write-offs or profit.

My challenge still stands, though after all this time and with all the opportunity MLM folks have had to answer the challenge, no one has stepped forward with adequate proof that ANY MLM actually works. (I am of the understanding that there are people who monitor these boards for A/Q and other MLMs. Surely, there is SOMEONE who can prove that s/he makes a decent income from MLM without a money-losing downline involved.

Then again…

But I do not have any “MLM viability test.” It’s a good idea, though.